As a leader in the childless space, Maria Hill brings a ton of wisdom to this episode. Her story of parental and societal expectations as a woman growing up in the 60's shed so much light on what we are going through now as childless women.
Maria and I cover some unexpected topics in this conversation from how Ayurveda supports the grief journey to highly sensitive people to the patriarchy and how it's impacting us all.
The most fascinating part of the conversation for me though, was on the topic of how our current culture perpetuates survival mode. You'll discover:
Where to find Maria:
Website: www.mariaehill.com
The Age Of The Queen webinar series: www.mariaehill.com/wcw-queen/
Instagram: @mariahill
References from this episode:
The Book of Longing by Sue Monk Kidd
Dance of the Dissident Daughter by Sue Monk Kidd
Are You A Highly Sensitive Person Test by Elaine Aron
Spiral Dynamics: Mastering Values, Leadership and Change by Prof. Don Edward Beck and Christopher C. Cowan
Where to find Sheri:
Instagram: @sherijohnsoncoaching
Website: sherijohnson.ca
If you want to create your best life in 2024, even without kids, download my free guide. You'll discover how to find purpose, joy and fulfillment and what might be standing in the way.
Click here for your free guide
As a leader in the childless space, Maria Hill brings a ton of wisdom to this episode. Her story of parental and societal expectations as a woman growing up in the 60's shed so much light on what we are going through now as childless women.
Maria and I cover some unexpected topics in this conversation from how Ayurveda supports the grief journey to highly sensitive people to the patriarchy and how it's impacting us all.
The most fascinating part of the conversation for me though, was on the topic of how our current culture perpetuates survival mode. You'll discover:
Where to find Maria:
Website: www.mariaehill.com
The Age Of The Queen webinar series: www.mariaehill.com/wcw-queen/
Instagram: @mariahill
References from this episode:
The Book of Longing by Sue Monk Kidd
Dance of the Dissident Daughter by Sue Monk Kidd
Are You A Highly Sensitive Person Test by Elaine Aron
Spiral Dynamics: Mastering Values, Leadership and Change by Prof. Don Edward Beck and Christopher C. Cowan
Where to find Sheri:
Instagram: @sherijohnsoncoaching
Website: sherijohnson.ca
If you want to create your best life in 2024, even without kids, download my free guide. You'll discover how to find purpose, joy and fulfillment and what might be standing in the way.
Click here for your free guide
I have a really special guest on the Awakeningworth podcast today.
Speaker 1:Maria Hill has been a leader in the childless space for quite a number of years and you're gonna hear more about her business and the services that she provides in her journey to get there, her journey through childlessness. But what most fascinated me was our conversation around how childlessness is actually a part of the transformation that we're going through as a species. That really caught my attention when she wrote that to me prior to joining me, so if you're also curious about that, then stay tuned. Hi, I'm Sherri Johnson and you are about to discover how to embrace your life as a childless woman who wanted to have a family and never could. This is where we combine mindset shifting tools with practical tips so you can break free of outdated societal norms that condition us all to believe that women without kids just don't measure up to the moms. It's where we take action on processing grief and accelerating the healing journey so you can feel free. When childless women awaken their self-worth, they transform from hopeless and inadequate to worthy, accepting and purposeful. Think of this podcast as your weekly dose of light bulb moments that will shift your perspective as a childless woman, about yourself, about your innate power to change yourself, your future and maybe from the world we live in. If that's what you want, then keep on listening. Okay, welcome back to the Awakening Worth podcast.
Speaker 1:I have a special guest with me today. Her name is Maria Hill and she has been a long-standing leader in the childless space childless, not by choice and so she has some pretty interesting things to talk to us about today. She is the founder of Magic, of Joy and Sensitive Evolution, and is also the author of the Emerging Sensitive, a guide for finding your place in the world. So those are things that I've heard. I'm sure we all have heard people talking about a lot lately is the, the empaths and the sensitive ones, and we're also going to talk a lot about her journey on the childless path and what she has to offer to us as childless women. So welcome, maria. Thanks so much for joining me on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here.
Speaker 1:Wonderful, so why don't we? I usually like to dive right into the good stuff, so I would love for you to start with a bit about your journey. How did you land on the childless path and what led you to the work that you're doing now?
Speaker 2:Well, I grew up in New England and great at Boston actually, and I'm the oldest of five. I was not particularly patriarchal in the way I think, and I didn't like my mother's dependency. She couldn't stand up for me because she was very dependent and that just did not sit well. So I knew that that path wasn't going to be my path and that I would always be working and that felt natural to me. I mean, I couldn't imagine not being a fairly engaged person and so I couldn't imagine just sort of sitting around. You know, just it felt like almost like I was gathering dust and being kind of a traditional role, at least the way it was back then. I think it's different now.
Speaker 1:What year would that have been Like? Around what time?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm 76. So I was growing up and when I became an adult that was the beginning of the 1970s and all the 60s and all that and that was a very traumatic time actually, because we had just liberalized divorce laws and where I was I mean I was in the, I was working, I was in the city going to college. At one point you could see that women were being thrown out and they were being abandoned with their children. There was no support. In fact, I think in this country we didn't get support for decades as a national thing. You know, it wasn't there and it was just absolutely awful.
Speaker 2:And I remember at the time, in the discussion about women working, that where women work was called the pink ghetto and it was. Yeah, it was really. It was frightening, and so I was terrified that I wouldn't be able to support myself. My family certainly didn't want me working. They wouldn't allow me to study anything that related to work. I was only allowed to study languages. I was supposed to become a typical housewife and that was never going to work for me. So we had our challenges and, of course, women weren't welcome in the workplace. So it was just ugly and frightening at the time, and so I really didn't worry about having children. I was worried about supporting myself. There were no guarantees, my family didn't have my back, and so I'm terrified.
Speaker 2:So I started working at a Boston hospital, and while I was there I started working on an MBA, so I could at least have some kind of a foundation under me, thinking that would prevent me from at least being too pushed into poverty.
Speaker 2:I don't know that's such a guarantee anymore, but nonetheless, you know I was doing what I could. And then eventually I met a man who had custody of two children, and we got married, and right after our wedding, one of his two sons went to live with his mother and in Massachusetts. That meant that she could start going to court to make demands, and she could go into court whenever she felt like it. And so we were in court constantly for at least 18 months, if not longer, and it put us in dire financial straits because of the legal bills, and so, of course, I never expected any of this, you know, and so it took us about a decade and a half to clean out all of that and he agreed to have a child, but then he backed out and so I was kind of, here I am, you know, I've been working like crazy, doing the best I can, and where am I?
Speaker 2:you know, nowhere and so basically I had to start over. So I went to art school, got a BFA in painting and printmaking and I started learning about cultural systems because from the time I was very young, I was curious about why things were so crazy. And then I started working online. I created resources for sensitive people like me, and then I started developing tools to help people release themselves from the cultural baggage of the past with an understanding of how cultural systems work. And so that's brought me to where I am today.
Speaker 1:You know I was born in the 70s and the perspective that you just shared on the divorce laws coming into play, I mean it's different in Canada, but even normally we hear everything about the states anyways, and that's a perspective that I hadn't really heard. I mean, we hear a lot about, you know, birth control came in in the early. What was that? The late 60s, early 70s. It's the sexual liberation and all these other things that we hear lots about, but not what you just talked about and the. You know I can see how that would drive someone to to make sure that she's going to be financially stable on her own in case of divorce and you get thrown out and with no support. My goodness, like that would. That would change everything about how you behave.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I hear women today talking about how they're unhappy that their mothers encourage them to be financially secure. That's where it came from, but yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 2:A lot of people don't realize that that was the genesis of that that whereas women I mean I remember I was already an adult working before I could have a credit card yes, I remember my mom talking about that, yes, and so it really hasn't been that long since we've had the ability to at least have some financial control over our lives. But yeah, I just remember it so distinctly women were being divorced and abandoned with children, and that just really left an imprint on my mind. You know, that was not, I wasn't going to do that. And the way my mother behaved, the way that my family was very right wing and authoritarian, you know, no, thank you, you know, so I really wanted to go in a totally different direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe I was born a feminist, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, I think we all are born feminists. We just need it to be awakened, because I always you know it's interesting that you brought up this topic because I'm really, it's something that I'm I really I've always I always thought I was a feminist, but at the same time I didn't want to call myself a feminist because that word was like oh, you're one of those, those loud women who you know, stand up for her rights. I didn't want to be one of those because that was so I don't know. That had such a negative connotation in my mind. And then it was really only in the last like I'm embarrassed to say, probably the last year. It was a year ago around this time that I picked up.
Speaker 1:I started reading Sumat Kid and it started with the book of longing and then I read the dance of the dissident daughter. Do you know Sumat Kid? You know her work. She is an author. The book of longing is fantastic, got really a lot of aqua lades. But she is a and forgive me if if anybody out there knows her work better than I do and I'm getting this wrong, but she is. She's an author who grew up in southern, southern US. I can't remember whether it was what state it was. But she grew up with a southern Baptist background. Her husband actually was a minister in that, in that faith, and she suddenly came to this awakening and she wrote about it in a memoir and it changed my whole perspective on feminism, on patriarchy, how I had been living in it and now I'm. You know, over the last year I've just been taking these first steps outside of that box and once you see, you can't unsee, like now I'm, now I see it everywhere and now I can't stop talking about it.
Speaker 1:And how pronatalism also, which you're of course very familiar with, also plays into that or is a, I don't know, is a piece of patriarchy, it all. It's all connected. So it's really I'm glad you brought it up and I think we're going to probably that'll come up over the course of our conversation, yeah, so okay, I kind of want to change it there.
Speaker 2:You know there is a part of us, I think, that wants to be friends with our people around us. We want to be. Most women, I know, want to be friends with men. They want that friendship, but we live in a system that's unfriendly towards us. And to give up that possibility of friendship with people that we may be care about or, you know, I have to be in relationship with, whether it's for work or family that's a hard thing to give up and I think that for women to become independent in some ways, we have to give up some of that and that dream of that spirit of friendship. It's almost like a different dream of family than the traditional, you know, just having children. There is that social aspect of family and if you're a feminist, you're you're actually kind of taking yourself out of the family as a social structure because you're not fitting into the to the role. So that's a bit of a grieving process too, I think, in addition to the childlessness that we already experience.
Speaker 1:That is so true. I'm just kind of digesting that. You're right. I think we you know. If you want to, yeah, we're probably going to get to this later too, because you've talked about how childless this childlessness is going to transform our species, which I think it is too, but yeah, it's. I've been reading a lot more about that. And when you think about the relationships that you have when you begin to embrace feminism, those relationships are going to change and you might leave some people behind or you and you also might invite some others in. But you're right, and there is, there could be loss there, loss of friendships, loss of family members, relationships with family members. There might be, you know, especially if you start, even if you don't start talking about it. I was going to say, if you start talking more openly about it, that may happen a lot faster. But even if you don't, your whole view changes. So your role in a relationship changes, everything changes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't fit in the way people expect you to. So if there's a certain role that you played and you're not playing it anymore, that's sort of like it disrupts the whole ecosystem. The ecosystem and people start to wig out on you. Yes, yeah, that's true and it's difficult to handle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's, you're absolutely right. So if we could take a couple steps back before we talk more about this, are you willing to expand a little bit on so? You are a step parent from the sounds of it and what you said, that your, your husband, had agreed to having a child and then that changed. Will you expand a little bit on your on the childless part of your path and how you, how you went, how it started, but also how you came to acceptance?
Speaker 2:Well, it took us so long to work through the financial stuff and I had asked him to give some thought. I had wanted to have a child and I asked him to think about it and I gave him all the space to think about it that he needed and he said it would be fine if we had our own. And I had been into Ayurveda for a long time, so I was working on my health, so I was very, very healthy and I did find an IVF doctor who would support us and at that point he said he didn't want to anymore.
Speaker 2:And that was he said I'm not moving forward. That was and that was the end of the conversation. There was no more conversation. And so I mean, as far as the step parenting is concerned, one of his sons went to live with the mother, and then the other son because we had to move from Massachusetts to Virginia to get employment to take care of all these bills that we moved, and so the other one then ended up back with his mother as well. So the step parenting lasted a few years. I mean they were very pampered young boys and I'm not one I'm going to be more of the empowerment type of stepmother which they didn't like all that much.
Speaker 2:So I guess it was probably inevitable that he ended up back with his mother. But we were just drowning under these financial issues and getting all these bills paid. So, you know, we moved, we bought houses, fixed them up and that kind of thing, and changed jobs. I mean, it was just really a very challenging and hectic time. We got through it, but then we just didn't seem to move forward afterward.
Speaker 2:You know I guess, and I just didn't feel any investment on his part into really putting down roots someplace or figuring out what kind of a life we're going to have together. You know, there was just no conversation going on, and so that's when I basically started picking up the pieces for myself, and I had always wanted to study art, and my parents when I was growing up would only let me study languages, which I had from the time I was a baby.
Speaker 2:They were determined to keep me in their little world and legal age was 21, so I didn't get to choose if I wanted to go to college. And so in Virginia there's one school Virginia Commonwealth University that has a very reasonably priced art school and it's one of the best. So I went there, I was able to get in and I went, and that helped me a little bit. But still I was going through a grieving process while I'm trying to do artwork and of course you know you have you have these grades and all these expectations in terms of your artwork and you know it's that that inner, that inner process was always bumping up against you know, my, my outer reality. But it was good for me. I did really, really well. So but and then afterward I have to figure out what am I going to do for a living? Because we had moved so many times, I really didn't have any roots anywhere.
Speaker 2:So, then the online world was beginning, and so I started down that path, and that's but our marriage basically, I think, just gradually deteriorated and we just went out separate ways. Politically we're in very different places at this point, and so a couple of years ago we got a divorce.
Speaker 1:Okay, thanks for sharing that Sure. How did you get involved in it? I think it was a gateway that you said you first started to interact with gateway women. How did you begin to sort of heal on the childless path?
Speaker 2:I think the Well. Yeah, I did get involved with the gateway, probably in the early days, so that's been at least 10 years, I think. I've always had it as part of my mission to support other women because there hasn't been enough, at least from my own experience, and so I spent a lot of time doing that within gateway and still do with the sensitive people there, I think the healing part for me. I had learned transcendental meditation and I had started working with Ayurveda, which is very good for you health-wise, and there is an energetic aspect to that that helps you, I think, with your grieving process. Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:Can I actually stop you there? I'm curious about that. Will you tell us about how it would? I mean, I think I know why there's a physical link between your emotional healing and your physical. But talk to me about Ayurveda.
Speaker 2:Well, I learned about it when, let me see, I saw a program by Deepak Chopra on NPR and I have blood clots. I got them really bad. I had them in my 20s and they almost killed me several times. I was in the hospital for a month and then it took me over six months to learn to walk again. So I have a really it's hereditary and so I have a really bad problem with that and the medical community really wasn't helping me enough so that I knew I could prevent them. So when I saw his program, I looked him up and he has this book, perfect Health, which explains a lot of the energetics around Ayurveda, and I started using it and it has helped me prevent further blood clots. So it's been a lifesaver for me.
Speaker 2:But I have noticed that Ayurveda has it's very old. It's about 5,000 years old. They have documented our biological systems. They've also documented food, herbs and everything and the impact, so they can tell you if you eat something, the impact on your body from the time it enters your mouth all the way through your body, every single impact of it, and they're very focused on the energetics. So, basically, if you're doing the practices you need to do in eating properly, your physical being should be in a state of bliss.
Speaker 2:Mm, bliss is your natural state, yeah, and so I have found it to be exceptionally helpful for me in terms of it certainly helps with the grieving process. I think if you're unable to perhaps access really great food or whatever, or you don't know about meditation, and the herbs they offer are wonderful, you know, I think that is, your body is already struggling, so that I think it probably is going to make the grieving process worse than it could be otherwise. It's still going to be challenging, but you know, I think it is worse if you don't have tools like Ayurveda, because it does help you to feel that positive, wonderful side of yourself, even if you're in a grieving process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I found it helped me.
Speaker 1:I think I. What I would say is that even if you don't have Ayurveda as a tool, you still. I'm a nutritionist, okay, and we didn't really touch on an Ayurveda in that program. There was a separate course that we could take, which I didn't for a bunch of reasons. But what I noticed is that even just when you nourish yourself with good, healthy food everybody knows what healthy food is, we know we need to eat more fruits and vegetables and nuts and seeds and less junk food when you actually nourish yourself with good foods, then your emotional health is also nourished.
Speaker 1:It's an act of self-care, in the same way as sleep is, or moving your body. Those are, I think, they. When I started eating better and when I started moving my body and allowing myself to rest, all of those things actually helped my emotional health, the grieving process, all of the pieces of my emotional health. So, even if you don't have that as a tool, I think just looking at what you're putting into your body, is that telling your body you love it, or is it telling your body something else?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and one of the things I love about Ayurveda is that everything is customized. They know that they can type your body, they can type your constitution and the doctors, the ones who are trained with the pulse diagnosis, and then you get a customized plan of what foods are right for you. So for me, for instance I'm a pitidotia Tomatoes are not the best for me. They're too acidic, right, and I love pizza.
Speaker 1:It goes the way. Pizza yes.
Speaker 2:But you get that, and so it's solely customized and you're not just trying to fit into someone else's idea of what's healthy. It's what's healthy for you. Yes so it takes it to another level. So certainly you can improve what you're doing for yourself with fruits and vegetables. Most of the time they're great for you, but you can take it to another level with Ayurveda which is nice, nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I kind of interrupted you and now I'm going back to where we left off there. Well, let me ask you some other questions, okay, so how tell me oh, this is what I had asked you how you came to a point of acceptance and what were some of the things that helped you on your journey and the grieving process? Yeah, there would have been a lot of I'm guessing you know, losing their relationship with your husband as a loss, not having the child that you wanted to also a loss that you know. There's a bunch of different points there that you would need to come to terms with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that it's kind of funny when I look back. I remember in my 20s thinking, well, whatever I was meant to do in life, I'm not going to do until later, because I was not allowed my own journey, and so I decided I would get some skills and I'm really good at getting skills. And so, as I look back, I think that not having children, I probably would not have gone to art school, I would not have learned about the cultural piece, all of these things that go into my work today. So I think that I probably may have always been on a different path. Yeah, I'm also glad that I'm not subjecting someone, a new person, to what's going on in the world right now. I think that is a big deal, because I'm not really interested in carrying that kind of guilt.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And you know that's a big deal to me. I think that our destructiveness is so bad I have no idea how this is all going to work out. I mean, I know the general direction we're heading in and need to head in, but the resistance to change is so bad and I don't think I ever really bargained for that whether it was in my husband or in the world in general.
Speaker 2:I mean, what is the big deal, you know? So women work. What's the big deal? Women have choices.
Speaker 2:Really, this is something to be upset about, and so I never really expected this kind of irrational attachment to authoritarianism and the patriarchy, and I think that's been hard for me to come to terms with. And you know, perhaps being childless is just part of that. I mean, to me having children was not an absolute must, because I was still just five. I got to, you know, take care of my siblings.
Speaker 2:And I was talking to someone and we were talking about how many women in the childless community are the oldest, and there is that aspect of having taken care of other people when you were young. So it's not necessarily the most urgent item on your list, necessarily, particularly if you're worried about financial survival. So I can't say that it was a compulsion for me to have a child, but at the same time, you know, of course I wanted to have a full life. So you know, I was really kind of surprised at how it went. But I was surprised that, given how well we were doing for so long or at least it seemed that we would be where we are now, but I'm glad I'm not subjecting another person to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's interesting that you talk about it in the way that something really caught my attention in what you just said, and that was that maybe you were always on a different track. I feel the same way. I didn't always feel the way that I do now, of course, but in hindsight, when I look at all the steps that I took to get to where I am now, I realize that I mean, of course I wouldn't be here. I serve the childless community as a career, as a business, and I wouldn't be here doing that. I'd still be back in human resources being, you know, feeling really unfulfilled and a lack of purpose and all the things that you know that I at first complained about and thought that that was the result of me not having kids. But I realize now that that wasn't just because I didn't have kids. I didn't feel fulfilled and purposeful in life and kids were not going. It's only in hindsight that I can see kids were not going to fulfill that and so, yeah, maybe I was on a different track all the way along as well.
Speaker 1:I didn't feel the compulsion to have kids, so I spent a lot of time focusing on my career and you know, I didn't meet somebody right away. I met my husband later in life. It was I was already in my mid 30s, and so when we started to have try to have kids it was too late. But I I don't know. It's only also in hindsight that I can look at that and think and realize that it wasn't my compulsion to have kids. It was everyone around me who was sort of instilling that in me, and I wonder really how many other women have just been in an environment where that belief that they're going to be fulfilled as a mother has just been instilled in them. And if all of that was stripped away, what would they choose? Great question.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of women would choose not to have children if they really felt free to make the choice. Because again, if you decide not to do that, you're having a change in your relationships with everybody around you. This a big cost.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a very big cost and not everyone is willing to give up family, you know, just to take a different path and some people can't. You know there could be reasons. I also feel that it was important to me to break the patterns of the past, because my family was so toxic when I was growing up and I did not want to repeat what I grew up with.
Speaker 2:So for me that was also a part of my journey, that healing piece of my journey. I've put a lot into doing the inner processing. Even when I was young I refused to shut down because I knew if I did they would have me, and so I was constantly processing all of the toxicity around me, you know, and trying to function well and raise my game and trying to be in a good place with my family, even though they were not exactly receptive to this feminist here. Yeah so, but I worked pretty hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it looks like you came out the other side. That's amazing, that's not like that's, I think I don't know. So many of us grew up in that kind of environment, maybe not one as toxic as what you're describing, but but we, most of us, grew up in very patriarchal homes and we most of us, I think just live with that. We don't try to understand it or change it or just sort of accept it. And then it's when you later on in life you start thinking, well, what, why do we do this? Why, you know, that sort of voice comes out for some, not all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that you have to be a little bit kind to yourself, because you're up against a lot, and it might have been in the past that you know if one person decided to be different it wasn't such a big deal. But right now, because the changes were going through a systemic, that, I think the tolerance for women who decide to go in a different way it's not so great. I mean, just in the United States I reluctant to have a female president. I mean, please? Yeah, you know, I mean it's craziness and it's very deep here. So we're up against a lot at a particular point in time when the resistance is great, and so you do have to have a certain amount of self protection so you don't get harmed by that.
Speaker 2:So I try to be careful about who I engage with on these subjects, because there are plenty of people who are not going to be receptive and they and there is a certain amount of vindictiveness that we're seeing towards those people who are trying to create change, and we have that in our society.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:We have killed people like Martin Luther King, who create change and so you know, it's just a kind of self care to be careful about the conversations that you have, so not every battle is yours.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we've, as women, as young girls, we're raised to not rock the boat. You must be nice girls, you must be, you know, good girls. Don't get angry, you don't get aggressive. They don't speak their voices, they, you know that's of course not everybody is subject to that, but so many of us are that you know, we just sort of take that on.
Speaker 2:Yes, and don't try to change that, and the movie Barbie just made it. There was one section where America talked about, you know, that very problem of these different, conflicting expectations of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That tried to pull us in different directions and make it really impossible for us to stand in our own. Energy and work from our inner being was so busy being pulled in so many different directions. It's torturous for us, yeah, and I think a lot of us had just had enough of it, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's a good thing. Yes, absolutely. So that's a great segue to the work that you're doing now I would love to hear more about. You've got a couple things going on, so where do you want to start?
Speaker 2:Well, my main website is MariaEhillcom. I have all of my projects there, but there's Sensitive Evolution. That's one of the things I do.
Speaker 1:It's a very large platform for sensitive people and of course the book is there and talk about, so just in case there's somebody who doesn't sort of know what a sensitive person is, I think we also call them empaths right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some people do. They're not quite the same. So a sensitive person is different biologically. It's not a personality, it's a biological difference. So my nervous system is you could say it's hyperactive, so I'm picking up on everything going on around me, more so than somebody else who's not sensitive. The nervous system is not as active, and so it changes the way I engage with the world. I have more things that I notice, more things that I have to process and more things that I have to think about before I take an action. It's just because that's what awareness does. So we have a higher awareness, you have more to deal with, and so it puts you in a different relationship with the world and it is more work. But you have the chance to have much greater wisdom if you really work with it well. Empaths actually take in other people's feelings as well. So some sensitive people don't, but many do, and I happen to be one of those empaths.
Speaker 1:So I work real hard. How would one know if they were a sensitive person?
Speaker 2:Well, they probably know that they're different already and they probably notice that they pick up on a lot of things that other people don't. But there is a website by Dr Aaron who wrote the book on the highly sensitive person. It's called HSpersoncom and there is a quiz there that you can take and I recommend that and that'll give you an idea of how sensitive you are. Okay, and there's a lot of good information there. I have some information on the various characteristics of sensitivity, the sensitivity to nuance and all of that on the library on my website, sensitive Evolution. That's one thing that you can do. But going and getting that quiz and really honing in on where you're sensitive is a good thing. For anyone who thinks they are, they should do that.
Speaker 1:Okay. I'll link that up in the show notes. For anyone who wants to do that and I think I will I would like to. I don't think I'm a sensitive person and I think it's part of what allows me to do the work that I do. I'm not an empath. I am empathetic and compassionate, but I don't and maybe this is why I was good at HR as well. I could look at a situation from a very business-minded perspective. Even when I had to let someone go, I had empathy for them, but I didn't take on their feelings. I could sort of place that barrier between me and them. So it's not about a lack of understanding of what they're going through or a lack of feeling for them, because I hated doing it nonetheless, but I didn't take on the feelings the way that some others did when I was sitting in front of someone or needed to explain something that I knew wasn't going to land well, or whatever it was.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. Yeah, for me the empath part is actually just a tool of discovery, because I'm able to look at different energies and I can actually go into the energy and I can learn something from it. So I use it as a tool of discovery and it helps me, working with different kinds of cultural perceptions, to understand them from the inside a little bit better.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:I try to turn all of this into a way to enhance my wisdom to the extent that I can, why not?
Speaker 1:I mean, everything that we're given is in some way a gift. There's a reason why you have that piece of you, that ability or whatever it is. So that's the sensitive evolution, and then is the magic of joy different.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I created the Emerging Sensitive Program for sensitive people. That was a year-long program and that went into all the cultural piece, all the different cultural systems, using spiral dynamics, which gives you basically the structure of cultural systems, so you can then begin to understand what you're dealing with. And so from that I created Magic of Joy, where I incorporated a lot of healing practices and theta healing, for instance, and so, and then I turned that into a joy practice. So Magic of Joy now incorporates the cultural stuff, information about why you remain attached to things that you shouldn't, the loyal soldier piece, and it provides you with a way to understand authoritarianism so that you can leave it behind so you know what you're dealing with and then a way to move away from the fear-based systems that authoritarianism is based on into a joy practice that lets you function from a totally different center that welcomes all of your intelligence.
Speaker 1:That sounds fascinating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm trying to make it easy for people to get out of authoritarian and patriarchal systems.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it does work, that's amazing, and how does that link up with the work that you're doing with the childless community?
Speaker 2:Well, I have helped a few childless women do that work themselves and they find that to be very effective. And I do support the sensitive. I have a sensitive group in the Gateway community, now called childless collective. So, okay, and I started doing calls with them and and I do Actually refer to all of this when we're doing our queen webinars. So, with World Child this week Stepping and I decided to do a series of webinars For two reasons one, so that childless women know there's something at the end of the grieving process that's worth, that's, that's good for them. There's something there. And the other reason is so that as people get through the grieving process, they don't feel like they have to leave the community. They can stay in the community and work with other people who have gotten to a good place and and what we talk about how this queen is someone who she, she knows herself, she knows what's true and what isn't, she knows what's nonsense and what isn't and she's able to live from that grounded, wise place without apology. It's a real self-reclamation.
Speaker 2:I think that's possible for women through the grieving process of childlessness and so we talk about that journey. You know what it's like, what it's brought us, some of the challenges that go with it and we have a good time, you know, talking about that. But some of these issues around From my work with culture and energy. They become part of our conversation because I create some questions that we taught and we talk about some of the energetic and other kinds of issues that we go through through the grieving process. So all of this work makes its way in there Because, basically, with all of the work I do, I'm helping people fully claim themselves. So the age of the queen webinars, you know it's, it's more of that and you can sign up on the world childless week website. Stephanie lists the list listed there, so I encourage people to do that. It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I will link that up in the show notes as well, I can see. You know, when you talked about the I think it was the magic of joy where you talked about like sort of letting go of what you're attached to that seems like a a big one for childless women. I mean, we're attached to so much the identity of being a mother, the idea, the patriarchal ideas, Ideals that have been instilled in us, right, there's so much that we're kind of hanging on to, and letting that go is what is going to liberate you. You know, if you stay attached to that motherhood identity, you, I don't know that you can ever fully embrace your childless identity.
Speaker 2:I think that's true, and I, but I also think that one of the reasons people stay stuck is because they don't feel like there's someplace to go. So when I do, when I talk about a joy practice and when I talk about the magic of joy, it's a practice. Yep, it's a different foundation, different intentions, different things. We're trying to create a different way of relating to yourself. So you have to have a place to go that you know is viable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so with a joy practice, you move into a different way of being, but you don't have to abandon the world. You just move into this new, the work of this new culture that's trying to come into being, which will be much more humane and much more accepting of differences. And so you have a place to go as a person and you have a place to go within the cultural space, and I think you need that in order to really, you know, let go of the past and all of these, these different Mindsets and energies that are they're clogging our being. It's still I. I wouldn't say it's a 100% easy, but once you have this, it's easier. And so something will come up and I'll notice a twinge or something and I'll I'll know what it is and I'll just process it and I'll try to see if there's something I need to learn. But it's not that hard for me to let go of it now, as it would be if I had no clue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that I think that links up with what we were talking about before, which is, and what I just want to use your words, I'm looking for it here Childlessness is a part of the transformation we are going through as a species. Yes, I want to hear about that.
Speaker 2:Okay. So this transition that we're going through, if you know Spiral dynamics and the cultural piece and the different cultural systems, so they're all adjourn there every single cultural system is a step in our journey To, and has been to, create a foundation for us, a Bible. People think of culture as being something fixed. It's not. Every culture is a project. So tribes, that's the project of connecting capitalism is the project of material well-being, and and every single cultural system has a life cycle, just like we do. But the one we're in right now is almost at the end of the survival story. So all of our Social systems, our cultural systems, have been built around the, the theme, the story of survival, all of our media. I mean, if you look at what gets the Academy Awards, it's not changing society, it's this whole survival thing and the war and all of that. You know that's what's considered serious because that's been the story. But the story now has to change because we have gone so far in this survival direction and we have kept going, even when we already succeeded. It's sort of like, you know, when you're having a discussion with someone, or and you're trying to make a point, but you never stop trying to make it even past, when you've succeeded in making it. That's where we are.
Speaker 2:The, the pollution in our world, whether it's air, water, food, all of that is contributing to childlessness. The excesses of our system, all Contributing to childlessness. The, the cost of living, so that people can't survive that much. And I'm reading more and more that people don't think they can afford to have children. They're absolutely right. They can't afford to have children anymore.
Speaker 2:So we have all these excesses and I think being childless is part of, it's a consequence of all of these excesses, which is why I try to get people not to blame themselves, because there is absolutely no way any of us Accept those who are exceptionally privileged, exceptionally supported, can really make this system. The way things are right now, work for them and have the Perfect family in the perfect career and all of that. It's just not not sustainable, it's just not possible. It's out of reach for most people now, yeah, so this system that we're in is really creating a lot of childlessness, and I've read that scientists think that infertility is going to be close to zero by the middle of the century. Wow, just from pollution and chemicals and all of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, as a nutritionist, I did a lot of work, research around that and so I've seen those numbers, but I hadn't thought of everything else. And this survival narrative versus change and it makes me think of the, you know, the Elon Musk's of the world and the Matt Walsh's and some of these bigger names. I was just watching a YouTube video with a girl named I think it's Simone Taylor who is a a outspoken pronatalist and all that they, you know they're trying to. They're talking about the collapse of society if we don't keep having children, and it's almost like we're talking about the same things but talking about them in completely different ways. Like I think what they're seeing is like it's gonna be economic collapse.
Speaker 1:And They've also talked about diversity, like the lack of diversity that will be in our future if we, if we don't change. But and those things are gonna happen. But there's so much more at play that they're missing and they're just kind of saying you need to go out and have more children. More children is what makes you valuable, and more children, more children, more children. But that's it's not the whole conversation. They're missing so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a lot of people. Well, under capitalism, the focus is on growth. That's right, and so there's nothing else that really matters to the economic system except growth, and it's not really a stable structure, and so it and of course, is destroying the planet and everybody in it. On it, I should say, and so you know it obviously has to change. But I think people don't realize. We have created enough resources, enough Infrastructure, enough institutions that we can survive. We just can't continue consuming, and so we're going to have to go through a process of change, and I, according to spiral dynamics, we're going to go through two different system changes one where we do the healing work, the social equity, restoring social equity and all of that kind of thing, and Restoring the planet, and then also getting our feedback on the ground so that we're living in a healthier ways.
Speaker 2:And I think the new theme will be thriving. And thriving and survival are not the same thing, because when you're thriving it's not a competitive thing. So I myself do my part, you do your part, and we create a world together that benefits everybody, whereas the survival narrative is very adversarial. There's always an enemy, someone who's going to take from you. It's very you know the whole competition, social competition thing.
Speaker 2:Well, it takes a lot of resources to Survive in that kind of a competitive world. So and it is true under capitalism, because every single institution has to survive on its own, it takes a lot of resources. If you, as an individual, have to survive without needing anything from anyone, you have to spend a lot of money to create the supports that let you survive. Let you survive that way, and so we're really out of balance when it comes around to how we live with nature and and how we consume and why. So it just needs to be cleaned up, yeah, and once we do, we can start Focusing on basic needs first. People won't be working themselves to death, you know. They'll work to live, not live to work, and it'll just be a more natural, healthier way of living. Winning won't be important. Quality of life will be, yeah, and you know we're going to have to make health and thriving our primary focus, not survival and and and winning competitions. That's all gonna have to go.
Speaker 2:I guess maybe at some point it was a good idea, but it isn't anymore, you know.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's not. Yeah, and you know I don't hear anybody talking about it in this way. You know it's like what you're saying is quite like a lot of this is new for me and it's kind of blowing my mind. I mean, I'm new to the whole feminist world and patriarchy and pro-natalism and how that's affecting us and what it looks like and what it's doing. But the way that you're talking about change and what we do need as a planet, as a society I've never heard anybody talk about it quite in that way Survival versus competition and thriving instead of competing that's really quite different and fascinating Makes me want to learn more.
Speaker 2:Survival is very short-sighted. You're always because fear makes you focus, whereas thriving is more relaxed. Because you take care of basic needs, you don't worry so much. It's a very different way of living, so totally different animal and one that I think we can't get soon enough.
Speaker 2:But it is different because people who have been used to capitalizing on the needs of people there wasn't saying in the 80s if you wanted to make money, you just create more needs. We're drowning in needs and people are going bankrupt with medical bills and all sorts of things. So we actually have to flip that and get rid of needs. So that means the economy may collapse, but it may actually end up being a good thing for everybody because we'll get the monkey off our back in terms of trying to survive An assistant that's always trying to keep us in need.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't it be nice?
Speaker 2:if we got out of need, do we really have to have so much need? I don't think we do.
Speaker 1:No, oh my goodness, when I look around at what I've told myself that I need in my home.
Speaker 2:We all do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh my gosh. I feel like I have so many more questions for you and we're low on time here, so why don't we circle back and just reiterate the webinar? It's a series of webinars, actually that I will link up in the show notes, called the.
Speaker 2:Age of the Queen. Yes, and that's really connecting childless women with the times we're in and the end result of their childless grieving journey. And those who have been through it.
Speaker 1:Yes, and those are free. If I recall, absolutely yes, wonderful. Okay, we'll link that up in the show notes. And you also mentioned your website, maria Hill, mariaehillcom. I'll link that also up in the show notes. And, yeah, I'll put, I'll drop in your your other places to find you and and all of that and anything any last things to add before we close off, that you want our listeners to know.
Speaker 2:Just I think that it's really worth everyone's while to listen to women who have made the more, have been through the more difficult aspects of the journey and to see what they're like, because because you get a sense of the the different energy they have after being through the childless grieving journey and there's a just a solid confidence that's really worth seeing and experiencing through the webinars. So I hope everyone will take advantage of them. The next ones April on the 20th. They're all on Saturday, so I hope everyone will join in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and you're absolutely right the people who have been through it to have come out the other side the level of confidence, the self worth that's what I talk about an awful lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah that is. That's all there in the, the women who are now leading and mentoring and coaching in this space. It's wonderful that is, and with that note, I want to thank you for your leadership, your mentorship, your wisdom, for bringing all of that to the podcast today. It's been a real delight to chat with you today. Thank you, well, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 2:It's been an honor to be here.